Posts by Disillusioned JW

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

carla, numerous dictionaries and encyclopedias in their entry about Jehovah's Witnesses say they are a Christian sect (or a Christian denomination or a Christian group), and thus say the religion is Christian. A number scholars even say the ancient Gnostics were Christians.

A number of surveys of religion, including specifically of Christianity, also classify Jehovah's Witnesses as Christians. For example, https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/ says "Jehovah’s Witnesses identify as Christians, but their beliefs are different from other Christians in some ways." Notice it didn't say they different "from Christians', but rather "from other Christians", thus saying they are Christians. The article also says "Like many other highly religious Christians, Jehovah’s Witnesses tend to take conservative positions on social issues."

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2011/12/19/global-christianity-exec/ says "Other Christians, such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, make up the remaining 1% of the global Christian population."

The following is a clarification of what I said in a prior post regarding my words of "'in regards to what the WT has lyingly said of so-called apostates (that all of them lie about the WT), I didn't know such was the case until years after I became baptized." By that I meant that I didn't know (until many years after my baptism) that the WT was lying when it said that all apostates (that which the WT calls apostates of the JW religion) lie about the WT. I learned years after my baptism that many apostates in their attacks of the WT's teachings accurately quote WT literature (without misrepresenting the quotes), instead of lying about the WT.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze, regarding you comment of "Demons believe the same and shudder. Are they Christians too?" my answer to you is as follows. The difference is that JWs (including me when I was a JW) worship Jehovah God and most JW's (even including probably the governing body of the JWs) do their best to do what they believe is God's will. Furthermore, the difference is that JWs love Jehovah God and Jesus Christ and are loyal to them (at least they believe they are loyal to them) and they hope of becoming blessed by Jehovah God, including attaining eternal life (whether in heaven as a spirit being or on Earth as a perfect human being). Regarding the demons I no longer believe they exist (as you know), though I realize that the Bible says they exist and that the Bible says they believe in God and shudder.

Regarding the claim of "They literally lie through their teeth publicly on street corners and say that they do believe and teach this stuff" I don't know if that is true, except perhaps in regards to a very small percentage of JWs. When I talked to a couple of JWs (I spoke to each them on a different occasion) I thought that one of them was lying in some things he said, or was possibly very deluded. I thought the other person was deluded in regards to one thing she said. I never said (such as when witnessing for example) the WT teaches something I knew it didn't teach.

I notice you said the following. "Only you find out later after baptism that they lied to you. Then, it's too late. By that time, they have their hooks into you and your family." In regards to their doctrines pertaining to what the Bible teaches that wasn't the case with me, since I was taught the JW religion from infancy (rather than from JWs witnessing to me in field service) and thus I studied the WT literature for years before I became baptized. However in regards to the WT's mishandling of quotes of many scientists (and of some other other sources) and in regards to what the WT has lyingly said of so-called apostates (that all of them lie about the WT), I didn't know such was the case until years after I became baptized.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze, I realize that WT has a number of teachings which disagree with the what the Bible says about Christianity, but they also have a number of teachings which agree with what the Bible teaches about Christianity. That latter include the following: Jesus is the son of God; Jesus is the Messiah and the Christ; a kingdom has been promised to Christ, Christ will execute judgement, a number of Christians will rule with him and serve as kings and priests during the time that Satan will be in the abyss for 1,000 years, and that Jesus is the mediator of those who will serve in such a capacity; that through Jesus Christ everything (and everyone) in existence; other than God the Father and Jesus (and the holy spirit?); came into existence.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

Yes the WT teaches it, except they claim those Christians are not true Christians and except that the WT excludes themselves from the group. But I view the WT and JWs as also being a part of Christianity (and even within Christendom, for they teach Christ's kingdom) and hence are also part of the division within Christianity. In regards to the WT and JWs highly protest-ant nature against other Christian religions, to me they are clearly Protestants despite the WT saying they are not Protestants and not a part of Protestantism.

I am familiar with the claim of Christians being united in the essentials and the claim that such is enough, but I strongly think more unity in many more beliefs is required if Christ is truly leading Christians. A number of atheist authors promoting atheism also share this view of mine, and perhaps I learned it from them.

Sea Breeze, I wasn't promoting self-abandonment, nor speaking of it in my prior post. I was not saying I never wanted the presence of Christ or God to be with me (provided they are outside of me), though I didn't want to go the heaven. (Furthermore, I was fine the idea of some of Jehovah's power working within in to help, for in a number of prayers i asked for God to help him accomplish certain things, him giving me the strength to be a better Christian.) Instead in my post I said I didn't want them inside of me - that is a big distinction. Likewise in regards to what I said about most JWs and possibly most non-evangelical Christians.

34

1985 and baptism...I wish I had read this before today

by enoughisenough in

i am posting a link as to being legally bound to jw rules at time of baptism.

i only did a quick skim, but what i gathered is interesting, and what it says about 1985 may be of use to some hoping to just fade and not be bothered.

in 1985, the questions were changed at baptism for legal purposes so they could have causation to defend themselves should you decide to sue for whatever reason.

Disillusioned JW

When were the words "spirit directed" taken out of the oath of baptism and is such reflected in a revision of the book called Organized To Do Jehovah's Will? I have the first edition (from 2005) of that book.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

What Smiles says of Jesus Christ not really being n the midst of multiple believers meeting in hiis name, makes a great deal of sense. That is because if Jesus Christ was present among Christians gathered together in his name, then the various groups of Christians wouldn't be doctrinally divided, yet they are greatly divided doctrinally and into numerous denominations and sects of Christianity. Such doctrinal divisions among Christians have existed even since the first century CE (as even testified in the NT letters which are attributed to Paul).

Furthermore, Jesus is definitely not being present on this website. If he was then the Christians gathered together on this website wouldn't persist in disputing with each in doctrinal matters, for they would have "the mind of Christ" (a term of the Apostle Paul) and thus be doctrinally united.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

Disillusioned JW

A relevant question to ask within this topic is the following. "Do JWs want Jesus or Jehovah to live instead of them?" I think that if JWs (and maybe even non-evangelical Christians in general) were to think about the idea of Jesus or Jehovah/YHWH (God the Father) living inside of them, then most of them would dislike the idea, but perhaps I am wrong about that. I do know that I at least sure wouldn't like the idea. I would not want any other person, even Jesus or YHWH, living in me and hence possessing me. I also never wanted to live in heaven, instead (before I became baptized, later while I was a JW, and still later while was an independent Christian) I wanted to live forever as a human in paradise on Earth.

34

1985 and baptism...I wish I had read this before today

by enoughisenough in

i am posting a link as to being legally bound to jw rules at time of baptism.

i only did a quick skim, but what i gathered is interesting, and what it says about 1985 may be of use to some hoping to just fade and not be bothered.

in 1985, the questions were changed at baptism for legal purposes so they could have causation to defend themselves should you decide to sue for whatever reason.

Disillusioned JW

I also was baptized before 1985 while I was a minor, but from what I have read in other forum topics of this web site, the WT (at least the USA branch) will not grant an annulment of the baptism if a baptized JW applied on paper for any task in the organization while an adult. For example if a JW applied for auxiliary pioneer service, regular pioneer service, or Bethel service, while one was age 18 of over in the USA, then the WT would say the person voluntarily chose to increase one's JW responsibilities while one was an adult and thus wanted to remain a JW. Likewise if one accepted an appointment to be a ministerial servant while one was age 18 or over, or even continued to do responsibilities in the Kingdom Halls (such as handling the microphones) after one became 18 years age. It was announced in my congregation when I was age 19 that I had become a ministerial servant, though no one had asked me if I wanted to be a ministerial servant. Furthermore, prior to the announcement to the congregation no had told me I had been appointed as a ministerial servant. When I asked an elder why I became appointed as a ministerial servant without first being asked if I wanted the appointment he said the overseer (I think he said the circuit overseer) said that is the policy. He also said people can turn down the appointment after it has been made. I didn't turn down the appointment, but if I had been asked beforehand I might would turned down becoming appointed.

62

NASA: Humans Back to the Moon

by Gerard in

nasa plans return to moon by 2020

"this vision aims to return humans to the moon, and then to use it as a staging point for a manned mission to mars.

i wonder if jws will be required to canvas those areas too.

Disillusioned JW

NASA has rescheduled the Artemis 1 launch to Saturday, September 3, 2022 during a 2-hour window beginning at 2:17 pm EDT (7.17pm BST / 6.17pm UTC). See https://www.livescience.com/nasa-announces-second-artemis-launch-date for more information.

9

vaxxed and blood transfusions

by enoughisenough in

some did the vaccines..some didn't...some will accept a blood transfusion, some won't ...here is something to consider if you didn't want the vaccines, but you would accept a transfusion.

i was reading comments from the "world" in under a video i had watched ( see link,) one of the comments ( have to scroll a good ways to find the comments about it ) is to the effect, they don't separate what blood came from those vaxxed and those who weren't ...so if you get a transfusion, you are getting the vaxx tainted blood.

"good health to you".

Disillusioned JW

"FDA News Release: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Authorizes Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech Bivalent COVID-19 Vaccines for Use as a Booster Dose" (see https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-moderna-pfizer-biontech-bivalent-covid-19-vaccines-use ).

The news release in part says the following.

"Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration amended the emergency use authorizations (EUAs) of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine and the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to authorize bivalent formulations of the vaccines for use as a single booster dose at least two months following primary or booster vaccination. The bivalent vaccines, which we will also refer to as “updated boosters,” contain two messenger RNA (mRNA) components of SARS-CoV-2 virus, one of the original strain of SARS-CoV-2 and the other one in common between the BA.4 and BA.5 lineages of the omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2.

... The BA.4 and BA.5 lineages of the omicron variant are currently causing most cases of COVID-19 in the U.S. and are predicted to circulate this fall and winter. In June, the agency’s Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee voted overwhelmingly to include an omicron component in COVID-19 booster vaccines.

... Based on the data supporting each of these authorizations, the bivalent COVID-19 vaccines are expected to provide increased protection against the currently circulating omicron variant. Individuals who receive a bivalent COVID-19 vaccine may experience side effects commonly reported by individuals who receive authorized or approved monovalent mRNA COVID-19 vaccines.

... After 28 days, the immune response against BA.1 of the participants who received the bivalent vaccine was better than the immune response of those who had received the monovalent Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine.

The safety of a single booster dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine, Bivalent for individuals 18 years of age and older is supported by safety data from a clinical study which evaluated a booster dose of Moderna’s investigational bivalent COVID-19 vaccine (original and omicron BA.1), safety data from clinical trials which evaluated primary and booster vaccination with the monovalent Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine, and postmarketing safety data with the monovalent Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine.

The safety data accrued with the bivalent vaccine (original and omicron BA.1) and with the monovalent Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine are relevant to the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine, Bivalent because these vaccines are manufactured using the same process.

... With today’s authorization, the FDA has also revised the EUA of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine and the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to remove the use of the monovalent Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccines for booster administration for individuals 18 years of age and older and 12 years of age and older, respectively. These monovalent vaccines continue to be authorized for use for administration of a primary series for individuals 6 months of age and older as described in the letters of authorization. At this time, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine remains authorized for administration of a single booster dose for individuals 5 through 11 years of age at least five months after completing a primary series of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine."

As a result of my reading the above, and noticing it meets my criteria which I stated in my prior post, I will probably get the Moderna Bivalent COVID-19 Vaccine as a single booster dose.